Pre-Marital Sex, Extreme Violence, and Over-Misogyny is OK, But Smoking is BAD

9 08 2010

"I need to prove I'm a tough guy villain by holding a gun to this baby's head! It's not like I have an evil look on my face all the time..."

Another day, another Marvel rant. Surprised? Before I start I just want to say that this post is not for the closed-minded and the Marvel Zombies. You’ve been warned.

So I’m sure most of us comic fans know about the initiative where Joe Quesada (Editor-In-Chief of Marvel Comics) wouldn’t allow characters to smoke in Marvel Comics because someone he knew died of lung cancer. While that’s nice and all, I’m here to tell you all that there are many far, far worse things than smoking within the comic books at Marvel. Those things are:

  • Pre-Marital Sex
  • Extreme Violence
  • Over-Misogyny

You know what all of these things have in common? They’ve been appearing throughout many of Marvel’s comics. Don’t believe me? Please bear with me as I provide this list of evidence (this is going to be a long one, folks):

I will be providing where the evidence comes from and who wrote the book.

Extreme violence AND over-misogyny:

I find it funny how smoking is a no-no, but extreme violence and misogyny is A-OK. It’s quite ridiculous. The evidence for misogyny will be bolded.

– Ultimate Red Skull holding a GUN to a BABY’S HEAD, then later THROWING said baby OUT OF A WINDOW, with a nice little blood splat on the next page (Ultimate Avengers#5- Mark Millar)

– A nurse REPEATEDLY STABS her husband to death with a pair of SCISSORS, with blood flying in the panel (Ultimate Avengers#5- Mark Millar)

A ticked off S.H.E.I.L.D. agent shoots a skrull lady in the head, killing her (New Avengers#48- Brian Michael Bendis)

– The tip of a plane going STRAIGHT THROUGH Ultimate Red Skull’s chest, again, with blood flying (Ultimate Avengers#6- Mark Millar)

– 8 pages, count ’em, of Ultimate Punisher SHOOTING people left and right with little to no dialogue (Ultimate Avengers 2#1- Mark Millar)

Nick Fury shoots a Skrull lady in the head (Mighty Avengers#12)

– Venom eats somebody/something/anything (WAY TOO MANY INSTANCES TO COUNT)

The Sentry RIPS OFF Morganna Le Fay’s HEAD OFF (Dark Avengers#2- Brian Michael Bendis)

Words can't express the disgust I feel while looking at this panel... and people thought that this was a good and fun book?!? Give me a break...

– Bullseye shoots numerous arrows into Morganna Le Fay, with his team congratulating him (Dark Avengers#3- Brian Michael Bendis)

The Hood beats/rapes Tigra TWO TIMES while Jigsaw films the first time (New Avengers#35 and New Avengers Annual#2)

From New Avengers#35. Can you believe that crap like this sells? Unbelieveable.

– Wolverine chops up a guy in half, rips another guy apart, Hulk gang member eats half of an arm, Wolverine sticks his claws THROUGH a Hulk Gang member’s face/head, a few Hulk Gang members have sex with a bunch of girls INTO UNCONSCIOUSNESS (not joking, sadly), explosion kills and decapitates several Hulk Gang members, Wolverine slices his way through several Hulk Gang members, Wolverine slices off evil She-Hulk’s head off, Wolverine disembowels a cow, Wolverine stabs through old, evil Bruce Banner then Banner turns into Hulk and eats Wolverine, then Wolverine CUTS OPEN Bruce and escapes. (Giant-Size Wolverine: Old Man Logan- Mark Millar)


Ultimate Blob eats Ultimate Wasp, then Ultimate Yellowjacket bites off Ultimate Blob’s head and spits it out (Ultimatum#2 and Ultimatum#3- Jeph Loeb)

Hawkeye, oops sorry, RONIN shoots an arrow through the Skrull Queen’s mouth. Then Norman Osborn shoots the Skrull Queen’s head off (Secret Invasion#7 and Secret Invasion#8- Brian Michael Bendis)

– The Lizard eats his own son (some terrible issue of Amazing Spider-Man- Zeb Wells)

Spider-Man RIPS OFF half of Sasha Kravinoff’s face (some terrible issue of Amazing Spider-Man- Joe Kelly)

– The Sentry rips open Ares with Ares’ entrails spilling out (Siege#2- Brian Michael Bendis)

– The Wasp mysteriously turns into a bunch of purple dots and disappears, assumed dead (Secret Invasion#8- Brian Michael Bendis)

Bendis LOVES The Wasp! Can't you tell?

 – Bullseye chokes the life out of the Sentry’s wife (Dark Avengers#15- Brian Michael Bendis)

This is one of the MOST SICKENING panels I've ever seen in my entire life.

– WARNING! WARNING! CAN’T COMPUTE VIOLENCE IN ULTIMATE AVENGERS#2! OH NO, I THINK I’M GOING TO BLOW UP AGAIN! I CAN’T HOLD IT MUCH LONGER!!! (spx: KA-BOOM!!!) *sigh* It’s all right guys… I’ll make sure this never happens again- oh who am I kidding? As long as Mark Millar lives this will keep happening! Sorry about the mess…

Pre-Marital Sex:

This is the one that gets me. As a Christian I believe that pre-marital sex is wrong. So when I see characters, especially the ones I love, running around with their pants down it angers me to a point where words can’t describe how angry I get. Plus it just fuels the fanboy power-fantasy where women are simply there to be objectified, which pisses me off even more.

– Peter Parker gets drunk and has a one-night stand with his ex-roomates sister (Amazing Spider-Man#601- Mark Waid)

– Moonstone persuades Marvel Boy, whoops, Captain Marvel- oh I’m sorry, he’s called Protector now isn’t he? Anyway Moonstone persuades Protector into her room where they bang each other (Dark Avengers#5- Brian Micheal Bendis)

– Moonstone takes off her shirt in front of Bullseye, in which it is hinted at that Bullseye quickly followed suit and banged each other (Dark Avengers#10- Brian Michael Bendis)

– Ultimate Nick Fury is shown to have slept with a numerous amount of the new Ultimate Black Widow’s friends in a flashback (Ultimate Avengers 2#4- Mark Millar)

– Sins Past. ‘Nuff Said (Amazing Spider-Man#514- J. Michael Straczynski with a huge amount of Joe Quesada’s stink mixed in)

– Ultimate Valkyrie sleeps with Ultimate Hank Pym (The Ultimates 2#6- Mark Millar)

– Ultimate Iron Man sleeps with Ultimate Black Widow on a videotape (The Ultimates 3#1- Jeph Loeb)

– Ultimate Valkyrie sleeps with Ultimate Thor (The Ultimates 3#2- Jeph Loeb)

– Ultimate Wolverine sleeps with Magneto’s wife (The Ultimates 3#3- Jeph Loeb)

– Ultimate Pyro and Mastermind are tempted to rape an unconscious Ultimate Valkyrie (The Ultimates 3#4- Jeph Loeb)

I could've gone without that, but ok... that's just... yuck...

– Ultimate Hulk Annual#1 (don’t even want to go into what happened in this…- Jeph Loeb)

– Spider-Man/Peter Parker sleeps with Black Cat (Amazing Spider-Man#607 and Amazing Spider-Man#622- Joe Kelly and Fred Van Lente)- I almost had an aneurysm reading these issues, in fact I remember throwing #622 on the floor…

 I don’t know about you, but these problems are worse than smoking. Whatever Joe Quesada wants he gets, right? He thought there were too many mutants, so what happens? No more mutants, except the popular ones. He hated the Peter Parker/MJ marriage and what happens? No more marriage. *Insert fanboy voice here* “But Jim Shooter wanted to have Peter marry MJ and wanted Jean Grey face the consequences of her actions and die in Dark Phoenix Saga!” *Throw away fanboy voice here* That’s true, but he felt those story decisions would strengthen the stories. He didn’t do those decsions just because of personal preferences and look, Dark Phoenix Saga is considered (and is my personal favorite X-Men story) to be the best X-Men story.

If Joe Quesada makes his editorial descions based on his on his personal life that’s fine, but he should be more concerned about what would be beneficial to the story, not just about how he personally feels. What do the fans want? That’s another thing that needs to be considered. I hope Marvel starts to get their stuff together soon. They’re slipping from me very fast. I’ve said my two cents about the current Spider-Man status quo, so I’m not going to re-visit that. I know I’m picking on Marvel here. DC is guilty of a lot of violence in their comics, but they’ve kept pre-marital sex and misogyny to a minimum.

So ends my rant about the ridiculousness that is the fact that pre-marital sex, extreme violence, and over-misogyny is not as bad as smoking. Apparently you can have Ultimate Red Skull pretty much kill everyone he sees, but you can’t have him smoke! Let me know what you guys think about this topic by leaving a comment below! Thanks in advance!




11 responses

10 08 2010

i think you said a mouthful i don’t agree with you on pre-maritial sex as it appers in most forms of media but having said that marvel does over do it.
personally i don’t get any bendis,millar or leob books beacause i believe they’ve sold out. they just do these types of stories just so they can get a quick buck and don’t care about the emotion of the characters the context or even in some cases the book at all all they know is that thier book is selling well and paying for thier second morgage on thier beach house.

mark millar in particular i believe has lost passio for comics and would rather work on his kick-ass and nemisis books. bendis too as he said a while a go in an interview that he doesn’t read any marvel comics
now i don’t write comics but i do however write ideas and post them on my blog,but if i did write marvel comics i would buy every marvel book that came out simply beacause i need to know what the characters have done and seen through and gone through and how it would effect them if i was writing avengers.

all the same very good article and i throughly enjoyed it and found it very interesting i tend to try and stay away from these things and try to be more positive unless i’m really pissed off and have to get it all out there are enough negative people on the internet and i find yours one of the nice ones great article

10 08 2010
Pink Eye

And people wonder why I read more DC and indy books.

10 08 2010

Hey dude,

I really enjoyed your extensive rant! And I love me a rant, yes I do! Now to put some oil on the flames, I’m going to disagree with you. (no offense)

Would you like me less if I had sex before marriage? Would I be considered less of a role-model because in some events we may have different viewpoints?

In what way does it offend you? To be more specific.

A lot of Bad Marvel Moments you pick in this Rant are about violence against women.

Now I totally agree on the missing artistic value, no point of discussion here..

But what is wrong with violence towards women? There is already a lot of violence towards men right? Shouldnt there be a balance? I know most men like to think that the women are weaker, but in real life its is all equal. I know girls that WILL kick my ass for real and i’m 6’8 tall!

10 08 2010

I’m glad you enjoyed my rant! Don’t worry, no offense taken!

I would not think less of you if you had sex before marriage. I wouldn’t agree with your choice, but it’s your decision and I respect that.

It offends me because I am a Christian and each and everyday I struggle to live by God’s rules. Pre-marital sex is against those rules.

Now, about violence towards women: It depends on context. If all I feel is disgust when Sentry rips off a female’s head or when a female skrull gets her head blown off that’s when I will complain. If there’s an emotional connection to the character and I feel BAD for the character than that’s good writing. For example, in The Luna Brothers’ book called The Sword. A lot of horrible things happen to that girl in the story, but I felt bad for the character and felt bad that these things were happening to her. To give Bendis some credit in his new book Scarlet, I felt bad for the girl when her boyfriend got killed because Bendis had gotten me emotionally invested in the character.

If there’s going to be any violent bad thing that’s going to happen to a character, male or female, there has got to be some sort of a sad feeling or a feeling of pain for the character from the reader. That’s how I look at it and that’s what I try to accomplish in my stories that I write. In the post I had mentioned that scene in Ultimate Avengers#5 where the nurse stabs her husband to death with a pair of scissors. I found that scene to be just as disgusting as the misogyny scenes I mentioned as well.

Thanks for the thoughtful questions hackslash! I enjoyed answering them!

10 08 2010

i have a question how do you feel about tony stark he’s preety big on pre-maritial sex but is definatly a good characters if not one of my favourite marvel heroes?

10 08 2010

Good question, AA124.

Tony Stark is one of those special cases where it’s in his character to do something like that. He’s a flawed man just like every other human being on the planet. I don’t like his choice, but it’s in his character and just reminds us that we all screw up.

I’m loving these questions you guys are asking me! Keep ’em coming!

13 08 2010

Hehe, nice title, and good article, quite incitefyl 😛

15 08 2010

quite a bit to take in there, cbd. I can respect your whole spiritual core deal when it comes to your comics reading, but I’m also kinda perplexed as well. By and large since I’ve been reading comics (I’m roughly around E’s age) the comics have been fairly secular in nature.
I guess my question is how do your Christian beliefs with largely presumably non-christian comics and characters. Daredevil has been shown to be Catholic (practising), I’m not sure) doubtful these days though, for sure. Kurt Wagner, a k a Nightcrawler I remember being one of the few “practising” Christians” in comics. I think it’s gonna be interesting when they eventually “ressurect” NC, because Marvel just can’t help themselves, and when they do bring him back….goes into my 2nd question; How do you think when NC is brought back, how he’ll react that he’s been ressurected, when by the beliefs that he holds…onlt Jesus Christ can be ressurected.
Pardon me for my meandering a bit, I really need to do write drafts 1st

later ‘dude

26 08 2010
Marvel mandates « The M Spot Blog

[…] #2, 5, and 6: comicbookdude wrote a great post on his blog with examples of how women are treated in Marvel books that you should check out. Here’s the link:… […]

28 10 2010

While I don’t necessarily take the same stance as you do on pre-marital sex, I do respect your beliefs and admire the fact that you are sticking to your guns about it. Completely agree with you on the rest of the post though. And I have to admit, seeing the sex lives of superheroes depicted in comcs is just…odd. I read comics for great, thrilling stories, the artwork, and the fight scenes. I’m not really interested in Superman’s sex life, anymore than I want to see a scene of Peter Parker on the toliet. I remember the Astonishing X-men issue when Kitty Pryde and Colossus got it on, and it just seemed weird to me. These were two of my favorite characters growing up, and to see them depicted in that way was kind of off-putting. I still think Wonder Woman deserves to get laid though.

13 12 2010

Who the hell cares about pre-married coitus?

Some people, like myself, don’t actually plan on getting married. And IO’m not going to never have sex. That’s just a part of life today, get over it. In fact, the very LITTLE amount of time spent on sex in Peter Parker’s world is incredibly unrealistic.

I don’t disagree that Marvel has some very violent moments. Nor the fact that in most media violence is okay while… some things are oddly not. You never see a man’s bulge in his skin-tight costume, for instance.

Extremely violent moments like the ones you’ve listed here are very rare and far between. Besides you missed some of the ones from Amazing Spidey: Spider-man being tortured with lasers to head and knives to the rest of his body, as well as him ripping chunks of Norman Osborne’s face off. That haooened long before what he did it to Ms. Kravinov. Plus, she and Norman totally deserved it..

My point with that is you make Marvel seem like an evil group of people who get off on violence. But they’re not and they’re not the worst out there. Also, the Hood never raped Tigra. Ambushed and badly beaten, for which she got some payback, yes. But raped, no.

Marvel seems unbalanced at this point because they really only show one dark area which is physical and psychological violence. But the heroes can still only go so far. You have the extremely good hero versus the extremely bad and violent villains.

Other books, such as The Authority by Wildstorm, feels much more balance than Marvel or DC stories and feels more realistic. That’s actually because they present a more real world. Yes there are super-powered beings and yes they do some unrealistic things. But how they’re balanced is actually because they are able to show them every aspect of life. Saving lives, hurting people, taking lives, fighting, sex (not graphic, but they still obviously do it), drug issues, messed up politics, etc…

But Marvel can’t go there because of it’s majority of readers. There are certain expectations of them and because of that they will always only write within certain parameters. And so they’re stories will likely always feel unbalanced by violence they way they are.

PS: Please forgive the mistakes, for some reason I can only see part of the typing window.

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